Curse

Francis Demeules · Mar 26, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Many thread about this combination and I tested in the Beta. So many questions can be answered here. I tested in Isle of Nameless and not in Arena (So dont blame me).

During the test I used these stats

Illusion 16
Dagger 12

1)First, about dagger mastery. The little 2% to do dual attack: many mesmers wondered about it stacks with IW. At 12 of dagguer, you have 24% chance to make a dual att.

Question: Did IW stack with Dual att from Dagguer Mastery?
My answer: Yes

When you're in IW, you can do a dual attack and do another 42 dmg to your foe.

2)Speed. Some says daggers go faster than swords, axe and others say go the same speed. Which say the truth?

Question: Did the daggers go faster than swords and axe?
My answer:Yes... again

Sword and Axe go about 1.33/sec and Daggers, I calculate about 1.29/sec. So dagguers are faster.

3)Effectivness, the REAL question come soon. Everybody knows about Me/W (Flurry) or Me/R (Beastial Fury A.K.A Tiger Fury) to increase speed and deal more dmg.

Question: Is it effective if we compare the others (Me/W and Me/R)?
My answer: Yes and no.

For No, "Quicker you kill your enemies, the better" I can say with IW. Because with Flurry/Fury, you can pack more dmg than daggers and, from another way, you dont have any focus with you when you use it.

For yes, If you dont care about speed, then you have, at least, one free slot to put a skill of your choice. Generally, when you play IW, you try to avoid taken dmg from any source. So thats why Lyssa gives us Distortion

.

It's all I can say for now on IW with Me/A. If you want to try it, go for it. Good luck in your build and good game all. Watch out to dont get stripped by Necromancer or another Mesmer.

If you have questions, post your thread here or leave a comment about it.

-Malin-

Banebow · Mar 26, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

Sword and Axe go about 1.33/sec and Daggers, I calculate about 1.29/sec. So dagguers are faster.

I would like to know how you calculated a 0.04 second difference please. I am not saying you are wrong, but I want to know how you got it and if the method may have some margin of error.

Francis Demeules · Mar 27, 2006, 12:33 AM // 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

I would like to know how you calculated a 0.04 second difference please. I am not saying you are wrong, but I want to know how you got it and if the method may have some margin of error.

My bad, there an error in it. 1.14 and not 1.29 (1.29 is someting else for me at my job

)

OK, First off, I tested the speed 10 times in a short duration (10 seconds). I counted the HITS without using any skills at lvl 12 daggers (dont forget that) during this time. The highest I got for now is 14 hits and the lowest is 9 hits during this test. So I take all the numbers I got and do this:

Total of all hits / number of tests / numbers of seconds = Hit/sec = 1.14

The Margin Error is ~0.24 for +/- in all. So 0.9/sec If your lucky to get always dual attack and 1.38 (lower than sword and axe sometimes) if you got a pause between attacks (0.4 sec pause) and do only single attack.

Banebow · Mar 27, 2006, 01:16 AM // 01:16

Why not just test it at 0 dagger mastery and count the main hand attacks? It is easy to tell when you land an offhand because it follows immediately after the main, so even if the rumored inate chance to dual hit triggered, you would have a more accurate measure.

Francis Demeules · Mar 27, 2006, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

Why not just test it at 0 dagger mastery and count the main hand attacks? It is easy to tell when you land an offhand because it follows immediately after the main, so even if the rumored inate chance to dual hit triggered, you would have a more accurate measure.

What I was thinking is 0 DM is 0% dual att. The reason why I did those tests is to answers many questions at once that appear lately. Like this one: Dual att under IW, Players thought we can't do a dual att because they thought we must hit then it did a offhand after that.

Ninetail Trickster · Mar 27, 2006, 01:41 AM // 01:41

This is brilliant.

~applauds~

Banebow · Mar 27, 2006, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

What I was thinking is 0 DM is 0% dual att.

That is what I thought as well, I have however heard of an inate % chance to dual strike, gotten by people using preorder daggers on a non-assassin. Since I have not preordered, I was unable to confirm it, and I have not looked into it yet during the event.

I like the idea of answering multiple questions at once, but 0.24 is a very large margin of error, especially when considering weapon speed.

Francis Demeules · Mar 27, 2006, 02:08 AM // 02:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banebow

That is what I thought as well, I have however heard of an inate % chance to dual strike, gotten by people using preorder daggers on a non-assassin. Since I have not preordered, I was unable to confirm it, and I have not looked into it yet during the event.

I like the idea of answering multiple questions at once, but 0.24 is a very large margin of error, especially when considering weapon speed.

I too I haven't preordered

Yeah I know about the margin but I got 1 time the 1.38 speed during the test and I can say you suck when you got 1.38/sec.

Minus Sign · Mar 27, 2006, 04:06 PM // 16:06

I replied to another thread about this same concept a while back, stating that IW would not work with CH.

Crow never tasted so good! Grats man, and much props.

Francis Demeules · Mar 29, 2006, 07:18 PM // 19:18

Thx, but I must tell you all, again, that you must sacrifice your focus to wield these daggers. So choose your IW type when Faction comes out.

nirhan shadowmauler · Apr 06, 2006, 11:12 AM // 11:12

yea one of the first things i did after i pre-ordered was pvp with my me/r with my daggers. you will still dual strike. you will attack faster. in fact even with no dagger mastery at all i still did more damage i think than with other weapons. but i cant wait to try out that skill that makes you attack 50% faster but with a high miss rate. since its IW i dont care if i miss do i?

Francis Demeules · Apr 06, 2006, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by nirhan shadowmauler

yea one of the first things i did after i pre-ordered was pvp with my me/r with my daggers. you will still dual strike. you will attack faster. in fact even with no dagger mastery at all i still did more damage i think than with other weapons. but i cant wait to try out that skill that makes you attack 50% faster but with a high miss rate. since its IW i dont care if i miss do i?

You do DMG even in blind. Its a great advantage for IW, you never miss and Ineptitude Build doesn't work. I think Empathy doen't work either.

LightningHell · Apr 06, 2006, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Demeules

You do DMG even in blind. Its a great advantage for IW, you never miss and Ineptitude Build doesn't work. I think Empathy doen't work either.

Actually, Empathy does. You attack, but you don't hit.

Avarre · Apr 06, 2006, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Mesmer with Daggers is an even bigger beacon screaming 'HI IM IW MES LOL' than sword.

It's a bit faster I guess... the problem is that IW d/s was never that much to speak of (d/e is awesome though!). I'd prefer Me/W with tactics, because healysig is handy in RA.

Hella Good · Apr 06, 2006, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I'd prefer Me/W with tactics, because healysig is handy in RA.

So very true. Part of being an IW Mes is being able to soak up quite some damage. This is usually achieved with Distortion/Heal Sig. Yes, we have Ether Feast but it's healing potential is mediocre compared to Heal Sig. So... I'm willing to sacrifice the faster attack speed and dual strikes for my Heal Sig.

Evilsod · Apr 06, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Have you never wondered why you don't see IW mesmers with hammers? (ignoring the slow attack speed).

2 Handed weapons. Use 2 handed weapons you lose both your shield and/or your focus giving warriors even more reason to go 'hmm squishy'. Although i cant deny that Shadow Refuge might be of some use but noway should you use 2 handed weapons.

LightningHell · Apr 06, 2006, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evilsod

2 Handed weapons. Use 2 handed weapons you lose both your shield and/or your focus giving warriors even more reason to go 'hmm squishy'. Although i cant deny that Shadow Refuge might be of some use but noway should you use 2 handed weapons.

Actually, in the rare ocassions I IW (in FPE, when I was bored and made an A/Me IW), I chose sword because I had a Crystalline.<_<>_>

You must be off your nuts if you think a Shield matters in PvP. Oh fine, they do, but minimally. A focus, I can't argue. Not even in PvE, since you want that -50 focus for 55.

But other than that, it's perfect. Slap on a Defense mod on it.

Francis Demeules · Apr 06, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I was thought to put some pts in Shadow Arts for self defense too.

tuperwho · Apr 07, 2006, 02:14 AM // 02:14

Right, so I posted this on another thread somewhere after doing similar testing. I disagree, however. Summary below:

1. Dagger speed = sword speed
2. dagger use precludes offhand item use -- energy, defense, -50hp, +1 to attributes, etc.
3. me/w with flurry attacks every .9 seconds. Me/a with 12 in dagger has a 24% chance of double hit. Thus, 4 attacks = 5 hits.... or a 25% speed increase to about one attack every 1 sec. Therefore, flurry's 33%>double hit's 25% speed increase.
4. Me/A requires 12 points into an attribute you're not using skills from. Me/W only requires illusion. Thus, you can do fast cast, or my preference, a few in inspiration, and max domination. You wanna kill fast, load up backfire or empathy, then go IW with shatter hex ready.

Conclusion: Me/W>>>>>Me/A And of course, gotta restate that you can put some dom. in your build, too, to make yourself more useful to a group and more effective in killing.